Deatschwerks DV2 1500cc Injector Review

Deatschwerks announced their DV2 line of injectors — 1200cc and 1500cc variants — not too long ago. I was fortunate to be one of the first to get the word about these injectors from DW and I was excited to get my hands on both sets to do some testing on my shop vehicle.

Foremost, I want to talk about the 1500cc variant — I’ll touch on the 1200cc set briefly later.

The test vehicle is a 2001 Honda S2000 powered by the F20C on an AEM Infinity stand alone. The fuel system is very simple — the OEM Honda fuel return system with completely stock fuel lines, with a Walbro 485 fuel pump in tank, an AEM FPR and AEM fuel rail sitting over the Deatschwerks DV2 1500cc injectors.

My goal? To make over 600whp (on a dyno that baselined 195whp for the car bone stock) with a Comp CT4x-5862 turbocharger.newmotor_20psi_pump_vs_24psi_e85

Mission? Accomplished. On E85 the vehicle put down over 600whp at 24psi and 525whp on 20psi running 92 octane pump gas.

 

That is fantastic power for a very simple setup — it’s a 2.0L bottom end with a 58mm turbo and only “drop in” fuel system upgrades (no plumbing new lines, etc).  The only fault in the fuel system is the high fuel pressure at idle — I’ll touch on that later — and the injectors have performed amazing nevertheless.

I am able to run a very wide range of power without swapping parts — no injector swaps, etc. The injectors DW supplied me have been more than plenty for my goal, with room to push to 700hp with a higher base pressure and a different pump/fuel line setup (the Walbro 485 doesn’t do so hot at high base pressures).

Unlike the 2200cc injectors we have been stuck with in the past if you wanted to do a 600whp+ flex fuel vehicle, the 1500’s don’t have the drivability nuances we’ve become so accustomed to — no insanely unstable idle due to the pops and misfires, no weird shuffling at light loads or on deceleration. Even on pump gas — where it is virtually impossible to get a set of 2200cc injectors to behave without running the vehicle at a super rich target lambda.

On E85 the 1500’s have a very slight pop at idle . On pump gas — they are a little “poppy”, but not so much that it deters from the idle or attracts unwanted attention to the car stop light to stop light. Much more than acceptable — they actually make the car very enjoyable to drive without having to put up with drivability nuances. In fact, whether it be on pump gas or E85 — squeezing the throttle rewards you with a smooth powerband, strong spool and very predictable power delivery without the odd “oops the motor missed” as you touched the throttle.

And if the biggest fault I can find with the 1500’s is that on deceleration in rare situations running pump gas I’d get some shuffle — I can easily blame it on the high fuel pressure at idle & low load. With the Walbro 485 in tank, the fuel volume is so massive the small factory return line can’t keep up when the engine doesn’t demand a lot of fuel — this increases the fuel pressure to over 70psi on this car, resulting in effectively a 1900cc injector in these situations. Yet — I was still able to fix the shuffling with a tuning trick, without going to the same extremes as a 2200cc injector.

Better yet — a fuel return line upgrade will bring the fuel pressure down to actual base pressure and clean up that behavior. This isn’t something I’m wanting to do on the car as I have not found it to be necessary — the drivability is fantastic and I just don’t want to change a thing at this point.

Short comment about the DV2 1200cc injectors: they are perfect. In every aspect. If you’re not looking for 600-700hp they’re a great choice as well. I made 575whp on E85 on the 1200’s squeezing them to 100% duty cycle.

Whatever you’re looking for — both injectors are fantastic and I would definitely recommend.  As with all the products I’ve tested and support, these injectors are on the VitTuned Store.

K Series Mapping: Why so many revisions for a proper map?

A question I get very frequently here at VitTuned. The short answer is very simple: do you want it done right, or do you want it done fast (and lazy)?

For the long and descriptive answer, let’s take a look at an example of a Hondata FlashPro (same idea with Hondata KPro and KTuner maps) map. The heart of the tune is the ignitcammapion, fuel & cam angle mapping, with the proper VTEC point being the final slice of pie.

The following graphic depicts these basics — but the thing to note is there are actually *10* ignition and *10* fuel maps, at various break points. So now at the very heart of the tune are 10 of each of the “big ones” (ignition/fuel) that need to be properly mapped for the vehicle & its modifications.

Now we can begin to understand why so much work — not only do you have to do all the individual mapping, you then have to combine it for a “final” fully tuned map, adding in any further tweaks necessary to smooth out the motor’s operation as well as doing any necessary part throttle tuning whimapsle the power tuning has been going on.

To the right is a screenshot of how many “revisions” a proper all motor map involves — this was a tune done in person on the shop Dynapack dyno. Every log is either a WOT pull or load based part throttle mapping while the vehicle was on the pack. Took about 34 “revisions” (IE, changes to the tune before more logging & testing was done).

This is how I do every tune, every single one. Whether it’s your basic stock K series vehicle or highly modified turbo built motor beast. Do it right, or don’t bother doing it at all.

I’ve seen some claim they tune like I do — short story is they may try to duplicate, but they can never replicate.

Let’s dig a little bit deeper.

The most important thing to note is the fuel mapping — on a setup that breaths very well there can be as much as a 30-40% difference in fueling between the 0 degree cam break point and the 50 degree cam break point. Even if you set up the cam angle map to have a mostly “fixed” cam angle map — guess what? The cam still moves, it’s a simple mechanism that’s powered by oil pressure — not to mention the phasing between the high cam and low cam (VTEC on and VTEC off) maps. Then what happens if the ECU ever limp modes for any reason? It will default to the 0 degree maps in the ECU during fail safe scenarios.

So let’s take for example a map where every single cam break point is the *exact* same, they are identical or very nearly so. Or fuel maps that were put together with no thought — I have yet to see a single K series motor that will demand the exact same fuel at every break point. In three words — it is impossible. As the cam angle moves, the VE (volumetric efficiency) of the motor changes, and as a result the fueling demand drastically changes which is then depicted in a map with properly tuned fueling.

Now what happens in this scenario? The cam will phase, the motor’s fueling demand will change, and you’ll start to experience some drivability concerns — some hesitation there, some weird lag here. What if the ECU limp modes? You’re left with a potentially undriveable (if not unsafe to drive) vehicle.

I’ve heard several excuses for lazy K series mapping — “AEM doesn’t  do it like this” (or insert “Blah blah stand alone doesn’t do it like this”) or “you’re obviously getting your information from someone who’s never seen anything but Hondata”. That is by far some of the worst excuses I’ve seen for laziness on this specific platform. And to break some hearts — I tune over a dozen different engine management systems. Simple fact is — you tune Hondata like Hondata, AEM like AEM, SCT like SCT, HPTuners like HPTuners, etc. Every EMS has it’s intricacies — you learn them all, or in my opinion, don’t bother touching it if you don’t have the motivation to do it right to begin with.

So I’ll leave you with that — you can have fast & lazy, or done right (but takes a bit more work). Ultimately it’s the customer’s money paying for the work & experience they’d like to receive.

VitTuned 2008 Honda Civic Si

Modifications

  • ERL Sleeved 2.1L K20 bottom end (11.5:1 pistons)
  • O-Ringed cylinder head w/ .040 copper head gasket
  • Portflow K20 cylinder head
  • GO Power custom cams
  • Comp CT43-6767 .96 a/r T4 turbocharger
  • FIC 2200cc Injectors
  • Dual DW300 Fuel Pumps in tank
  • Quaife LSD
  • DSS 5.9 Axles
  • Tilton Twin Disc clutch w/ HRB kit
  • 25psi on E85 — tuning was stopped as the fuel pumps were maxed out

25psi